comments on comments

[Monikah]

MonSter is one of my names. My experiences are as you describe. But maybe it's semantics now, because the turn of words is quite tested and there will be no rising above the FACT that I've been harmed, though I will rise above the experience.

Blessings,
Monikah

[Sowelu]

Fair enough, Mon. (((Hugs!)))

Love you!
Sowelu

[Nicole]

What I got out of this is what I call, for lack of a better way to describe, "bad" people. Or even "bad" animals. Have you ever came across a person that you knew had no good in them? Nothing inside - just a drive to torture, kill, whatever, all around them. There's no remorse and no thought about it. It's their purpose. And you can see it and feel it in them when you are near.

To me this is what Monikah was talking about. There's no compassion there. There's nothing there. It's like they're a machine programmed for one thing. If you've ever encountered an animal or person like this you know what I mean. Even if you've only seen them in movies.

[Monikah]

Thanks, Nicole. Good explanation. What you say exists and is what is being removed, as well as others. There truly are << deliberate and nasty and uncalled-for and all sorts of evil and insidiously harmful things>>. Rising above an experience doesn't negate the fact that that's what these things are to begin with, even as seen at the highest levels of compassion and unity.

Also, another explanation of my view might be that I don't see there being what's termed "illusion" and what's termed "real". To me that's vernacular used to get people to rise above what's here, to realize there's something else "out there," but it also keeps people in duality. 3d and all realities involved are a fractal of the whole, not an illusion that doesn't exist in the whole. What I am experiencing here in 3d is hardly an illusion, in fact it's one of the most real experiences I've ever undergone. To deny this is to deny my experiences.

A fractal holds the same blueprint as the whole and expresses it at the level the fractal is at. To say I'm harmed "here" but not harmed "there" is what's illusory because it's impossible. When I am harmed I am harmed in my whole being and my whole being needs to rise above it. Harm to my 3d self is experienced throughout, not just 3d, as harm to another level of me is also experienced in 3d.

Thanks for the discussion, Sowelu, and gettin' me to put process this and get it into the written word.

Love you too,
Monikah

[Nicole]

Well, you're certainly right Monikah about what's termed illusion and reality. Something can indeed be an illusion, but when you experience it, it is your reality as well. It is real, even if only to you. Reality is subjective for each of us but real nevertheless.

In our language we need a way to explain these things to ourselves and I think we really get boxed in sometimes. Especially here on the Forums. That's why it takes so long to hash this stuff out because we have to figure out how to say what we really mean AFTER we figure out what we really mean LOL.

So what I am getting at is that yes, the words and duality of illusion and reality are both reality and illusion if you can wrap your head around that. They are a dichotomy created by us for our use and growth and understanding and at the same time both are very, very real and very much a purposeful illusion. I bet we could write an entire paper on this one! hehehe

So when we begin to integrate illusion and reality, we must come to the realization, IMO, that we are both harmed and unharmed at the same time. This is integration - acknowledging the harm done/pain felt while acknowledging that it was also illusion created by/for and experienced by Self.

The big question here is who bears responsibility for any and all occurrances that cause harm/pain to another being/soul/consciousness? That's a tough one. I say any and all parties involved, including the one experiencing the raw end of the stick.

Anyway, losing train of consciousness here so will shut up now

[Monikah]

Would someone give me an example of illusion? I mean, what's illusory about experiencing harm? Just because one rises above it doesn't mean the original experience is an illusion. I'm confused.

[Nicole]

I think it refers to our experiences here being holographic as some think, or perhaps that only our core consciousness experiences the REAL and what we experience here are interactive holographic illusions just like, say, a video game character. Does that make sense?

It's still real, b/c we experience it.

[Nicole]

Which really makes me wonder about the validity of the description of illusion. If we experience it as reality how is it illusion? If it is real to me, why is it illusion? Seems like a convenient word/mind trick to convince me my reality isn't real or something.

[Monikah]

Oh. That helps. If we experience holographic reality for the growth and learning, what we experience and learn here is a part of our whole reality. To me saying that what I experience here is not real continues to perpetuate the system control that my experiences are all in my mind (lower case m). I find this distinction denies me. I was harmed in all levels of my reality, holographic and non-holographic. This isn't something my insane mind is making up.

Semantics, I suppose, but it seems it could be a cause of misunderstanding in which people might continue to say harm isn't real because it's holographic (and thus could justify harm), and that someday when out of the holograph these experiences don't count because they were an illusion. Hardly, imho. This logic, too, would then say that since harm is not real here, neither is joy.

[Nicole]

That really hits on something important IMO. If you are guided by anyone else to chalk it up to all in your insane mind, that's a form of mind control, which we all know is perpetuated by some who wish to hold power in this universe. And as you said it sort of absolves them from responsibility.

This is a key thing in moving forward from the point we are at right now. I don't know what else to say at this time except that to me, this feels the same way as shrugging off the burden of religion - it's a major step. Of course this means that we have to rethink the entire bag of worms here. But we've done that before and that's ok. More will come to light in time.

Sowelu, I'm dying to know your opinion here. I know yesterday I would have agreed that all is as it should be and that it's illusion, etc. But now this seems crystal clear to me - well, not the nitty gritty but the concept.

Also it feels like more of leaving the old behind and embarking on the new. I think it's a natural step in the evolution of consciousness and that we needed the old explanation before but that now it's time to leave it behind and move forward into another level of reality.

Ooh, just got too that it helps to further dismantle the FF.

Any thoughts?

[Sowelu]

In my own experience, when I move into NOW in my heart, there is nothing in the totality of that moment that actually feels harmed. In those moments, it is clear to me that the essence of who I am is complete, whole, unharmed, at peace with All That Is.

In those moments, it is clear to me that what I remember from the past and project toward the future is not what's real. What is real is the essence of serene knowing and awareness of wholeness in the NOW.

This is what never dies. This is what is always at the root of all experience, and how I can survive anything. This is "my truth", and the touchstone that reminds me that what I endure in any given experience is temporary. That which incorporates each new experience's impact, is what's real.

That is what's eternal. And when I identify self by that eternal beingness, I am aware of how impossible it is to harm me. Ever. In any way. I am invincible, indestructable, and cannot be annihilated. Regardless of what appears to be my experiences, I am more than them. I was more before them, and even more because of them. They caused no harm, and in fact enhanced my understanding of the truth of who I AM. The experiences will pass, I will not. I am eternal.

For me, this is how I am able to use a term like "illusion". Because I have entered that place in my heart that touches the core of Self. It isn't a mental concept for me to say "illusion" over "reality". It's that experience of the NOW where the particulars of who did what to whom fade away, leaving only the impression of the lasting truth that those experiences revealed, that enables me to say what's real and what's illusion.

In THIS NOW, am I harmed? No. In THIS moment, am I truly in pain? No. If I remember or project, I may feel pain, but only if I am still emotionally attached to some negatively impacting, distorted understanding of what occurred or might occur in the future. In other words, only if I am still in fear in regard to that memory or projection. Which is not being in NOW, not being identified with my eternal self, but rather fully identifying who I am by my experiences. Which is a partial self-identity, and bound to feel incomplete, dissatisfied, and unfulfilled as yet.

I thank you, Monikah, for this discussion. And Nicole and all others who participated. I have never actually described this awareness before, in my own words, directly from my own experience.

Much love and blessings,
Sowelu

[Nicole]

Sowelu,

I can totally agree with you. There's a bridge here to be made and I can't quite close the gap as of yet. But I do think that the concept you're describing can't quite be described in our language, or maybe we need to find another word, because I know exactly what you mean but don't feel comfortable anymore describing it as illusion. Now, I know it's just a word but since words hold meaning, ...well, you get the point.

Does this make sense? I will have to think on this bridge I'm attempting here. It's on the tip of my tongue but won't pop out yet.

[Sowelu]

Just last week, I was fully immersed in my pain and the hellish experience of being human. I was ranting and venting to spirit how absolutely unacceptable it is to throw me those fucking platitudes "all is as it should be" when I'm in pain and unable to find my heart and desperate for comfort! FUCK YOU, I said loudly and repeatedly.

And yet here I am today, the same person, and yet not feeling any of that anger OR pain anymore. How is that possible? I actually released it, and by doing so was able to REopen to the truth of me.

All of my painful experiences that have occurred in this human existence are real to my human aspect, yes. And I survived each one of them, to reawaken to something deeper, more lasting. But only by releasing the energy that held those painful experiences to my self-identity.

When we identify by our woundedness, this is who we are, for all intents and purposes. And there is nothing wrong with doing this. When we tire of it, we search for something more, something more to explain how we can possibly be walking an earth carrying around all of this pain-as-identity, and yet still be here. Still be alive. Still be able to lend a helping hand to another. Still be able to find love for a moment... in spite of all that woundedness. How is this possible?

Over time and with effort, we can reach the NOW for flashing moments, and get a glimpse of how it's possible. Because the woundedness is not who we are. The more we seek the glimpses of that something more, the more pains, memories, projections in fear will rise to prevent our access to it. Not because life is cruel, but because these are the energies of denial of self and truth that exist at this level of being. Each time we seek truth, this is what we will first encounter.

Eventually, there isn't a whole lot that blocks our access to the truth... of self, life creation, all. Eventually.

But don't take my word for it, and certainly don't "believe" me. Every experience is valid and real. And we remain attached to the ones that matter to us the most for as long as must. Whatever your view today, it is accurate, your truth, and completely valid. If it changes tomorrow or ten cycles from now, the changed view will be accurate, your truth, and completely valid.

It will change, though. Eventually. This is the one constant we can most certainly count on. Change is constant at the level of experience. Truth is constant at the core. The tension between these two "constants" is our playground, hell, canvas. We are both.

With love,
Sowelu

[Monikah]

I've been where you're at, Sowelu. I've risen above the pain, been in what you describe as the Now, and returned to the pain only to do it again. I understand completely what you describe.

For me it's not a matter of not finding the love. I can feel the love and still be in pain. I don't identify with the woundedness and can still be in pain. I can be in the Now and still feel the pain.

I will continue to rise above this and expect that it will continue even once I'm home. Perhaps when I return to Metaphon it will ease. But, loves, Metaphon, who is what some describe as the Source of All, feels pain, betrayal, anguish, loss. So do others who are in the Now. The funerals mentioned are not easy processes for them either, for example. All That Is includes pain or it isn't all of it. To me it's not that it will go away, it's a matter of becoming a Master of the pain.

I agree that understanding this is part of taking down the Frequency Fence. We are programmed to think it's different upstairs than down, that some painless heaven is attainable if only this or that. We may be able to rise above certain situations, get to a joyful expression most of the time, avoid experiences that cause pain, etc., but because we are individuals with emotions, it ain'ta gonna go away unless we express without emotions. And that's not what most of us are here learning to do.

Love,
Monikah

[Nicole]

I see that I was getting at something other than what you're talking about Mon and Sowelu. You're discussing pain and the letting go of, I'm in to illusion vs reality. I'll open another thread soon!

HUGS!