|
|
Post by Nicole on Aug 9, 2004 11:44:43 GMT -5
Starseed, I moved this from the other thread so I could reply in the proper area. Well, first, I'm not sure what you mean by you didn't think you could make "you guys" angry. Starseed, I'm a person with feelings just like you are. Why wouldn't I go off if I really got my feelings hurt? I'll let you in on a little secret - for a long time I "tried not to be like that" and all I accomplished was not expressing my feelings and squashing my inner child. Which is just the opposite of what I have learned and what I try to convey to others. By the way, this doesn't mean I'm not willing to listen. If you're angry or happy either one I'm willing to listen. But don't expect me to squash my emotions to be nice...even if that's not exactly what you meant. Yep, because I wasn't feeling any love at the time so why lie  I don't mind you rambling Starseed. But as in any conversation, it's a two way street. You mentioned in another post in the other thread that you want people to reply to your main point or something (don't remember the exact words, you get the gist), and so if you desire such a focused reply then I think the burden is on you to make it clear just what you are looking for and not ramble on about other things. Just as in any conversation, I reply with what I am guided to reply with unless asked a point blank question. As a counselor, I could go on here about the fact that perhaps you don't really want to explore these other parts of conversation because of some other issue. But you know what? I'm not speaking here as a counselor so I'm gonna tell you what I think as a PERSON. Your reply was just plain rude and even mean. Who wants to have a conversation with you with an attitude like that? You COULD have just redirected the conversation if you felt you were misunderstood or something. In fact, I read other replies to your posts that I didn't even think were in the ballpark of what you were talking about but you didn't say a word to them. And then you bite my head off like that? How would feel if I had done that to you? Well, I feel like crap Starseed. I felt absolutely worthless after reading your post. I felt as bad as if you had just walked up and slapped me in the face. And I know that I must clear this in order to move past it, and I know that to do that I must find gratitude for you for the lesson you are helping me with - genunine gratitude - but for now all I know is that you gave the me the opportunity to acknowledge that I am angry and to further explore self-worth. But I don't feel any gratitude yet , and I sure don't feel safe talking with you. Nicole |
|
|
|
Post by liza on Aug 10, 2004 5:11:00 GMT -5
::hugs:: Hey Nicole! Great start and I definitely know what you mean. I honor your process. Do you want additional comments and advice from us that you can look at freely and decide for yourself?
|
|
|
|
Post by liza on Aug 10, 2004 5:11:32 GMT -5
Or questions even? I forgot to add that! LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by Nicole on Aug 10, 2004 15:23:38 GMT -5
Sure Liza. I'm definitely open to exploring this openly here. I guess if I wasn't I wouldn't be exploring it here huh?  Love, Nicole |
|
|
|
Post by seaoffeeling on Aug 10, 2004 21:11:30 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Hi Nicole, First of all, I want to say that it's truly inspiring that you are working on this here, and are so open to self-exploration. So I hope it is of some comfort to you that you are getting off to a good start with this. I have a comment and a question relating to this. My comment is that in my observation of the thread between you and Star Seed, it seemed that the content or the topic of the conversation wasn't really the issue, that something else was being triggered and was manifesting in the struggle for both of you. Which brings me to my question to you, what was it specifically that triggered your anger/hurt response? Within you, that is. Your describing it like a "slap in the face" makes me think of a massive sense of rejection. As a counsellor, I imagine that when you put yourself out there, you're coming from a place of genuine love and caring. There may be a conscious or unconscious expectation that what you give to another will be received with either a conscious or unconscious understanding of the love and caring you put into it. So having your love and caring being understood differently by the person you offered it to must be incredibly painful, as it can feel like a rejection of your very self. Even more so, if this touches on an underlying issue or history of being rejected by people you loved. I don't know if any of this makes sense or resonates with you, but I thought I'd offer my three cents Much love, -SeaofFeeling[/glow] |
|
|
|
Post by liza on Aug 11, 2004 0:59:41 GMT -5
Ohh, yeah.  What are you afraid of, Nicole, that bought this on about? Oh yeah, your feelings are still valid, sweetie! This is the gunky part, huh? hehe.. well, you're doing just great. There's some mirror thing going on here for sure. It sounds like you had an expectation of what Starseed would behave towards you-- and you knew he/she violated a boundary, and let's call a spade a spade here: A boundary is a temporary safe harbor you assign yourself out of self-love to accomodate your fears (thats what the EC forum is for *winks*). That sounds like an oxymoron, huh?! There's something you're definitely ANGRY about, and I hear you girl! You have a right to have your anger-- otherwise you wouldn't have emotions. You're also fulfilling a contract you made with Starseed as major angels prior to this lifetime. You ARE an angel, Nicole. So is he! LOL Not easy to play the dark role, or to really feel it either. Or lack thereof. Starseed also had an expectation of how you would reply to the thread he had started, and stated things badly as he admitted he did recently with you in the same thread after you made your vent. Okay, there we have it To summarize it up... both of you gave away your power to each other, it looked like that to me. I could be wrong! LOL Love ya Nicole. *HUGS* |
|
|
|
Post by ADMIN on Aug 11, 2004 9:04:37 GMT -5
[glow=PURPLE,2,300]Geez...I guess I could share my point of view if it's ok. I have always said that our words bring a vibration with them and that is what we percieve upon either listening or reading them. We still humans lack the correct expression or perception as we allow our inner child/ego to get into the act. When words clash with us we immediately become defensive, I have been thru that many times and then I find we try to justify our reactions.  I have many a times tried to keep my cool when someone triggers me/innerchild , other times I allow my external mind to ramble off and try to hurt the author who started the trigger. The payback game. Those times that I have been able to control myself and keep my poise in front of this sort of situation I have found that it like a negative verses positive energy exchange and it feels like "let's see who has more power" I feel that we give power to that energy when we join them in their fasad.(sp) The feeling of success one has when you keep your emotions under control are very rewarding, it feels wonderful to master these emotions, mind you it doesn't mean we don't have emotions, we do, it's that we haven't mastered them yet! I think Nicole and Starseed that you both have brought about a issue and lesson here for all of us to work thru, because we all are here to learn and this episode is a great example! We here at EC are here to learn, not to just come here and chat, therfore this has been of great value that can teach us how to proceed when similar situations arise for us in the future. I also feel that many times our inner issues are taken out on others, the blame game, we have all done this before and will continue until we acknowledge that we are still in the process of creating perfection. On the other hand guys, hey we are all family and families have fuels! Oh, the roles we play for our beloved family! HUH! Finally, great thread because it reminded me of a situation I once was in where the guy kept putting me down and I kept giving him light!!!! (((Hugs))) [/glow] |
|
|
|
Post by Nicole on Aug 11, 2004 12:39:48 GMT -5
Well, let me try to reply to the questions you all have brought up here. Sea of Feeling first The funny thing SOF is that as a Counselor, I don't get offended very easily or often. When I shift to that role then I'm in that role and I don't take things personally. And on top of that, I tend to hold my boundaries much better as far as what I will take and what I won't as far as verbal abuse, people not showing up for appointments, etc. So let me say that I got offended as ME - as NICOLE. And yes it was a rejection. I felt like I was being told that my input to the conversation was worthless, and what's worse it was the WAY it was put to me. So I have two triggers here - one for self worth and the other regarding common courtesy. And yes, I consciously expect to be treated like any human being would like to be treated in that respect and that is not too much to ask or expect IMO. Now, that said, I want to emphasize that when I speak here at Earth Council I am speaking from two different roles - one is a Counselor role and the other is as NICOLE, the person. There is no good way to separate the two unless I simply deny NICOLE the right to speak at all. And what happens? People expect me to be perfect - to have no emotions showing except for love, to be in complete balance all of the time. Well, that's unreasonable. I'm not speaking to you SOF - this is an issue I have already tried to resolve with another member here but off of this board and to no avail. So I feel it is important to say. And what I said I had been doing - squelching my IC because I "should" be this way or that - has been very detrimental. I have not allowed myself to express until it is way too late and the damage is done to my IC and I won't do that anymore. I have the right to be angry, to feel hurt, AND to express it and make it known. And then of course to set my boundaries. Let me stop here to say that anyone on this board who talks to me gets whole me, the compilation of both - Nicole and Nicole the Counselor unless you become one of my clients. Then I am forced to separate Nicole from Nicole/Counselor as is the nature of the profession. So, Liza: I will agree with you to a point. I am not going to let someone sit here and spit on me - that's a boundary. Why would I? I don't think true boundaries are tied to fears. I think they are tied to self-respect. Now, that doesn't mean that our ICs won't have us create false boundaries to protect the ego. Of course they will! So in relation to this issue at hand, I guess my boundary is if you are rude to me I'm going to tell you about it. I'm sick and tired of other people not having the decency to talk to other people like they aren't dogs. I'm a person too - I deserve to speak and be heard like everyone else and if what I say doesn't resonate then move on. You don't have to bite my head off. An expectation? Yes. Based on a fear? Probably, but at this point I feel it is more based on self-respect. My IC is tired of getting shit on. And now, MirRA! ;D I think that when you EFFORTLESSLY keep your emotions under control then it is truly a victory - you've arrived. But if you have to think about it, and try to do it, then you're not there yet and you have to get the emotions out. You have to express. How you choose to do so and how it's received is a toss up. You have to be willing to accept the consequences if it's received badly by others and you have to be willing to be responsible for your actions. And if you want the issue to go away, you have to be willing to explore and clear the issue. So for my situation here, I had simply had enough. Starseed happened to be my one millionth customer so to speak and I'm done with letting people treat me like shit and then thinking "well, it must be my issue" or "well, they must be having a bad day" or "well, maybe they didn't mean it" or whatever. Could I have responded differently? Yes, if I was "there," but I'm not. This issue is yet to be cleared by me. Why? Because I thought those thoughts and supressed it for too long. I disprespected my Self before. Now I have to get angry about it so that I can clear and change it. Is it my issue? Sure it is - in more ways than one. It's my issue because I attach my self worth to what others say to me. It's my issue because Starseed's behavior mirrors something to me (probably my own treatment of my IC and possibly others). It's my issue because I had to experience it in order to wake up and start respecting my IC and taking up for her, and more importantly realize my own worth. But it's Starseed's issue too, and I'm not shouldering all of the blame like I have been in the past. Have others asked me to shoulder the blame? Sometimes. But sometimes I have just done it because I *should* feel or act this way if I am *good* or *smart* or a good counselor or whatever. Does this make sense? Love, Nicole |
|
|
|
Post by ADMIN on Aug 11, 2004 15:14:33 GMT -5
Nicole,
I know where you are cominf from and I agree, if we have not yet mastered it, express it and let it out. Hey it could have worst consequences like something similar happen here at work a today.
A manger tells a porter to stop what he is doing (cutting up the boxes) and go clean up some oil that spilled on the floor. He told him in precaucion that a person whould fall and have greater consequences, you know like a broken back, etc.
The porter replied that he would do it when he finished cutting up the boxes. The manager said, no, stop what you are doing and clean it up. The porter again insisted that the clean up could wait, but the manager was getting upset and he was losing his patinece.
Liste said the Manger, when I tell you to do something, drop whatever it is you are doing a do what I tell you.
The porter replies; well how come so and so didn't clean it up ( making excuses) that's his job.
Manger syas, you are a porter too and don't give me excuses. Now the porter got real defensive and twisted things around and raised his vioce to the manager; you talk to me with respect said the porter, you are always speaking down to me in front of others. ( mind you, I was there and the manager did not disrespect the porter, evidently he has inner issues) The manager tells him that everytime he gives him a order he always puts an objection. The porter tells him; you aren'tmy manager J. is. I spoke up and told the porter that he was the manager.
Anyways, to finish the sotry, the manager lost his temper and sent the porter home., The porter walked away defying the manager and ranting... This situation could have escalated to violence because there is no control, no patience, no thinking of what could follow when we have no self control of our actions and reactions.
As I observed them, both were very angry and it felt like a little man fighting a bigger man position wise.
Who do you think was right, and who do you think has the inner issue here?
|
|
|
|
Post by Lunaria on Aug 11, 2004 15:42:41 GMT -5
Looks Like to ne the porter has the inner issue.
;D
|
|
|
|
Post by liza on Aug 12, 2004 3:41:49 GMT -5
Yeah, manners are important in an interaction to me also, Nicole. For me, if that person was pretty rude to me like that-- I can point it out like you did (probably without the cussing, too, that's just me LOL) in perhaps PM.. and don't talk with that person again until the manners are there again. Would be nice if that person made an apology, too! But I won't force the apology out if it's not real. I will just play my own fiddle as usual, doing my thang |
|
|
|
Post by Nicole on Aug 12, 2004 12:01:33 GMT -5
Well I guess if they both got angry then they both have an issue. But yes, the Porter had issues to begin with.
I have an issue too, as I said before, and I know what it is and where it came from. Resolving it is the rest of the story. **Sigh**
Liza,
Well, I curse and that's just part of me. I don't do it 100% of the time, but I do curse. Anyway...
I disagree about private message. If something was done via private message to begin with, then fine. But when you bring your stuff out in the open, such as in a forum such as this, and then you can't take the heat, well I guess I suggest you get out of the kitchen. (You as in the "everyone" sense of the word). I don't know if you're suggesting this is what I should have done or if you're simply saying that's what you do. I guess I'm saying why I didn't do that in this case. Anyway...
I will resolve the issue within myself. I assume that either Starseed has no intentions of clearing it or perhaps they are just away from the board for right now. At any rate, unless it's resolved BETWEEN us, then I don't choose to talk with Starseed.
Still open to exploring if others wish to.
Love,
Nicole
|
|
|
|
Post by liza on Aug 12, 2004 14:51:01 GMT -5
nah wasnt saying it is what you should do.. but just what i do for me. hey, thanks for asking! i guess i'm more comforable with that, and you do have a good point there. methinks wherever we might choose to react, one thing is constant- how we react shows where we are at our process and what kind of filter we are using to see things, ya know? that might be a big duh to you, though! LOL i dont know what other avenues there are to explore.. looking forward to others' ideas, too... thanks for replying, chickie. i hope you find what you seek out of this. I'll be lurking around, of course! |
|
|
|
Post by Nicole on Aug 13, 2004 9:45:47 GMT -5
Hey Liza!
I noticed yesterday that my right ear was slightly stopped up. This morning it is worse and the other ear is stopping up. So I asked my IC what is it that she doesn't want to hear in relation to this conversation.
Her answer is that she simply is tired of everyone telling her that she is wrong to react in the way that she reacts - whatever that may be. She has heard this all of her life. No one has ever been comfortable with our level of emotion. She has trouble expressing joy because she has never been allowed to fully express the opposite without being told she is wrong, bad, or just too different from others. No one likes to experience anger, or atleast our anger. What's more, we were our family's vent for years. They would not express and so we did for them. That's another story, but you get the picture.
So while I can tell her all day that I'm ok with her reactions and expressions, she feels beaten up for the years of putting up with this. I know what to do about it, but it doesn't make her feel any better. We're battered and bruised. It seems it doesn't matter what we say or how we express it is wrong. This is a recurring theme.
So anyway, that's what she doesn't want to hear. How I am going to heal this one is beyond me, but I know I will. For now she says that she is simply not going to put energy towards those who are ugly to us, meaning no further interaction with them unless they truly want to work through things. Otherwise no more beating ourselves up or trying to make nice and mend fences. We'll get to compassion eventually but not if we keep on the course we're on because we just feel too darn bad to feel anything good about "people like Starseed" (her words).
Anyhow, hope this makes sense. This is what she told me this morning.
Love,
Nicole
|
|
|
|
Post by Sowelu on Aug 13, 2004 10:13:18 GMT -5
Amen, I hear ya and can relate totally, Nicole! (((((Hugs!))))) to you both!
|
|
